Hello All. I need some help/advice please. I recently purchased a Hinderer Investigator pen in copper but it came with patina already. I have spent the last 2 days trying to restore it to “new” condition but am not having much luck. Does anyone know if I even can clean to a sparkly new copper shine, or is the finish a permanent forced patina? On a related note I am having the same problem with a Hinderer Mount Hood copper bead. I have soaked the body and cap (and bead) in a vinegar and salt solition and periodically scrub it with a toothbrush. I also tried ketchup. And and all advice would be appreciated, thanks. I can post pictures for referance if needed.